But it's MY Question! Asked or Received Horary Charts

I wanted to do some additional followup regarding an earlier post about the proper location to be used for horary charts. Do we use the asked chart, the time, date and place of the querent when they first asked the question, or do we use the received chart, the time, date and place the astrologer receives and understands the question?

Lilly says,

"...for let us suppose a Letter is sent or delivered to me, wherein I am desired to resolve some doubts; perhaps I receive the Letter into my hands at three o'clock in any day of the week, but in regard of some occassions, do not read it until four or five hours after; that very hour and minute of hour when I break it open, and perceive the intention of the Querent, is the time to which I ought to erect my Figure, and from thence to draw mine Astrological Judgment: This way and manner have I practiced, and found success answerable..."

William Lilly, Christian Astrology, page 166.

Lilly's practice, therefore, was to use the received chart. Some querents find this confusing. After all, "It is MY question, why don't you use MY location, time and date?" Some of the force behind this view comes from the Modern World View in particular the idea that "The basic unit of the Modern World View is taken to be the individual." The view that an idea might have a person, rather than a person having an idea seems odd to the modern.

But look at the Wrong Zodiac Meme an excellent example of an idea or concept going viral, seemingly a metaphoric, but actually a pretty accurate description of how the same idea "infected" millions.

So is it really MY question? Traditional astrology says not quite! The medieval Italian astrologer Guido Bonatti says,

1st Consideration. on those things which move a man to pose a question (and there are three motions). The first is the motion of the soul, when someone is moved by his intention to pose a question. The second is the motion of the superior bodies, namely when someone asks what they are impressing into the quesited thing, what will come of it. The third is the motion of the free will, which can itself be an action of the one asking. Because even thought the soul is moved to ask, it does not suffice unless the superior bodies lead him to pose the question; nor does the motion of the stars suffice, unless form the motion of the free will the act of asking is reached.

Guido Bonatti, Book of Astronomy, Tr. 5, 146 Considerations, trans Dykes (Cazimi Press, 2007) at 264.

In other words the querent is part of a larger patterning, that they are not under the complete control of (fatalism) nor are they entirely able to choose any option (complete free will) rather they play a role in a complex patterned interaction and flow.

I tell querents that I prefer to use the received time because it gives a more accurate and more objective view of the situation. The asked chart often seems subjective, affected in its accuracy by the emotional state, hopes and fears of the querent. Let me give a concrete, personal example.

I had had a contractor do some work on my house. Unlike all my other contractors this one was an acquaintance/friend. They had previously done a good job, came in under the estimate and so foolishly, I didn't get an written estimate for the latest work and just relied on an oral estimate. When they gave me the first bill, before any visible work was done on the house, the bill was already high. I made my displeasure known and the contractor claimed to be "2/3s done" When they gave me the final bill, however, it turned out that they were not 2/3s done and had billed me way, way, way higher. I was angry, send them a check and told them take it or leave it, having judged that the contractor didn't have the stomach for a fight. However, they surprised me by getting a lawyer and threatening a lawsuit!

Here is the chart of my question, "How will the contractor case turn out?" asked once I got the lawyer's letter. 2:25 pm CST December 11, 2010 Iowa City, IA USA. 11 Taurus rises and it is Mars hour. As Mars is the mixed ruler of earth signs, the chart is radical or rooted which means it has internal signs of accuracy.

As Taurus rises I am signified by Venus, who is dignified by triplicity, but in detriment, conjunct the 7th house cusp.

The Moon is peregrine in the 11th house.

The contractor as legal opponent is signified by Mars, ruler of the 7th house, exalted and conjunct the North Node.

The Moon sextiles Mars, significator of the legal opponent, then Mercury, then trines Venus, my significator. Mars is currently moving to sextile Venus, my significator, but will not perfect the aspect as Venus speeds up.

Analysis

Wow, am I @#$% My significator Venus, while dignified by triplicity (+3) is in detriment (-5) overall -2. Worse, I am in the sign and conjunct the cusp of the house of my opponent, a sign of defeat. Christian Astrology page 373. His significator Mars, ruler of the 7th, is the natural ruler of warfare and litigation, very strong, and he is feeling very strong about his position since Mars is exalted. Comparing the strength of my significator Venus -2 to his significator Mars, +4 I also lose. Christian Astrology page 373.

Ok, now the Moon sextiles Mars, without reception so that indicates settlement, but with some battling it out first. Christian Astrology page 372. Mars, his significator, looks like it is applying to Venus, my significator, but Venus speeds up and gets away before the aspect perfects. This could indicate an attempt at settlement, likely by him, that doesn't pan out.

Look at my 2nd house ruled by Mercury, peregrine and retrograde, ouch, losses for me. His house of wealth, the 8th is ruled by Jupiter dignified by sign and the Sun dignified by triplicity is there along with his significator exalted and conjunct the North Node. Much better in terms of money for him than me.

So, I felt that I was in a terrible position, that the case would settle but that I would have to end up paying a lot because I was so weak and he was so strong. I was particularly bothered by the fact that my personal opinion of him was that he didn't want to fight, but here he was Mars exalted in the chart and he had hired a lawyer.

Ok, now the outcome is very interesting. Seeing this chart, I immediately changed course, and switched from being aggressive to trying to settle the case. I call the contractor on the phone and suggested we meet and work things out amicably. At first he agreed then his lawyer called and aggressively refused to meet in person and insisted on me making a settlement offer. I made an initial low ball offer and amazingly enough the contractor took it! The lawyer was somewhat embarrassed that the client just folded. I ended up settling the case for not much more than the initial oral estimate and saved a huge amount of money off the original bill.

So the chart was correct as far as showing settlement, but rather than showing the actual state of the parties, it showed my emotional attitude at the time of the question! I was really surprised and unhappy to get the lawyer's letter.

Now, we cannot entirely rule out that the chart simply was inaccurate, except that I have done plenty of received charts that were quite accurate. Also I have been noticing that legal charts that I do are leaning towards being more negative in the chart than in the actual outcome. All of these possibilities need to be considered. However, ultimately, this reminds me of what sometimes happens to me with tarot or I ching readings. Occasionally when I do these readings when I am upset about a situation, instead of forecasting the situation they come back saying, "yes you are upset!"

Certainly our traditional sources often manifested skepticism about the ability of an astrologer to be dispassionate enough to read their own chart. eg Guido Bonatti, Book of Astronomy, Tr. 6, Chapter 4, trans Dykes (Cazimi Press, 2007) at 264. It does appear that for the highest degree of accuracy that it is very useful to have another astrologer not only judge the question, but also take the received
chart.

Personal Lucky Stars?

I had a question recently asking if a particular star was rising (conjunct the Ascendant) in one's natal chart, whether that made it a "lucky" star for the person and contrawise, if the star was on the Descendant (conjunct the 7th house cusp) that made it personally "unlucky".

It appears that the original Hellenistic use of the angles, ie 1st house cusp or Ascendant, 10th or Midheaven, 7th or Descendant, 4th or Imum Coeli ("below heaven") was as a measure of strength, with the Ascendant being strongest, closely followed by the Midheaven.

While the houses now have additional meanings, eg 2nd is money, 4th real property, etc., the angular houses retain their use as indicating strength and prominence. See Bonatti, Book of Astronomy, Tr. 2 Ch 4 Dykes trans at 94 "...four are called "angles", name the 1st & 4th and 7th and 10th. And these houses are the stronger and firmer parts of the Heavens..."

The most prominent part of a house is conjunct the cusp. A planet that is not in a house, but in the previous house within 5 degrees of the cusp of a house, strongly influences that house, even stronger than if it were say, 20 degrees into the house. This is the "5 degree" rule of Ptolemy. Tetrabiblos, Bk III.

So a planet, fixed star, etc., conjunct the Ascendant or Midheaven is giving the strongest possible influence over the strongest houses in the chart. The orb will vary depending on whether this is a planet (perhaps up to 8 degrees) or fixed star (within 1 degree usually) or varying for Nodes, etc.

In any case, a planet or fixed star conjunct the Ascendant or Midheaven will be very influential for the chart and very prominent in the life of a person if it is a natal chart.

Now, how it will affect the person or manifest depends on what the nature of the star is and the person's life situation. But merely being conjunct the Ascendant or Midheaven doesn't change the nature of the star. Algol conjunct the Ascendant in your natal chart, doesn't generally make Algol a "lucky star" for you, rather it makes you metaphorically lose your head and make bad choices or occasionally is an indication of violent death by literally losing your head. Now this does not rule out the possibility that you can tap into the energy of Algol more easily since it is so prominent but Algol stays Algol. Of course, my experience with Algol shows me that he or she is powerful, but quite useful in the proper circumstance as well. See, for example Large Algol Talisman and Small Algol Talisman.

I do notice that there is a tendency for astrologers to assume that the Heavens re-arrange themselves based on our personal birthcharts. If Saturn, for example, rules the 7th in your chart, he foretells, among other factors, your love life. This does not, however, make Saturn a love talisman for you, because this is not his nature.

We are the result of the mingling of celestial forces, not the arbiters of their nature!

Wrong Zodiac Meme

It's a tribute to the amplifying power of the Internet that the "Wrong Zodiac Meme" ie, constellations have moved, there are 13 signs, etc., has now gone viral. I've had multiple posters try to put up links on it, I even got called by a TV reporter for comments on it.

In short the "Wrong Zodiac Meme" says, "Throw away your watch, the only accurate way to tell time is with a sundial!"

But this is nothing more than the tired, old, moth eaten Constellational Zodiac argument. I got so tired of questions about it, that I did a whole webpage on it awhile ago.

This is a perfect example of what is wrong with modern astrology and the "New Age" in general. As the bastard child of Science, Victorian Theosophy and New Thought, it utterly lacks a coherent underlying philosophy. Ask a modern astrologer how astrology works and they are either going to give some variation of energy fields, or gravity beams or string theory, or they just won't have a clue! The "Wrong Zodiac Meme" is going to totally flummox them, since they believe in scientific causality and this is an argument based on scientific causality.

But wait! What is the point of making a technical argument based on scientific causality when astrology itself is completely unscientific? This is like saying, "A new scientific study shows that the Catholic Mass needs reform because chemical analysis shows that white wine is closer to actual blood chemistry than red wine."

But as I mention on the webpage If you find the "Wrong Zodiac Meme" argument convincing, you are an unconscious atheistic/materialist! Nothing wrong with that, good thing to know, but a real stumbling block to working as a traditional astrologer or magician.

When to Ask a Horary???

I was recently asked about how I timed the asking of a personal horary question. The questioner asked me, assuming I knew where the planets were at any given time, how did that affect when I asked a horary.

Using astrological software causes me to think in terms of celestial snapshots, lots of individual charts, rather than really being aware of the current position of planets. To tell you the truth, off hand I can't tell you the current position of any planet other than Saturn (in Libra) and Jupiter (in Pisces). Part of this is calculated because I don't want to base a horary on my knowledge of the planets' position and part comes from always using astrological software.

Of course, even if you know all the position of the planets, it is a lot more difficult to know who the current house rulers are and this is really the key to a horary analysis.

I have had clients who attempted to control horaries by worrying about the Moon being void of course, or Mercury retrograde or trying to ask the horary at a good time. My view of this is that it is about as effective as going through a tarot deck and taking out all the bad cards. You can force a positive divination, but it is likely to be inaccurate!

So I strongly advise querents not to base the timing of the asking of a horary on one's astrological knowledge. The easiest way to do that is not to be aware of the state of the Heavens at all, or at least do your best not to let it influence you.

What I recommend to clients is that they ask a horary when they just can't stand it any longer and HAVE to know the answer. Bonatti says, "For matters spring up according to the amount of worry and hope and money of the querent."

Guido Bonatti, Book of Astronomy, Tr. 6, Part 2, On the Particular Judgments of the Stars, trans Dykes (Cazimi Press, 2007) at 371.

It is useful to consider exactly what is happening when a querent asks a question. Bonatti says,

1st Consideration. on those things which move a man to pose a question (and there are three motions). The first is the motion of the soul, when someone is moved by his intention to pose a question. The second is the motion of the superior bodies, namely when someone asks what they are impressing into the quesited thing, what will come of it. The third is the motion of the free will, which can itself be an action of the one asking. Because even thought the soul is moved to ask, it does not suffice unless the superior bodies lead him to pose the question; nor does the motion of the stars suffice, unless form the motion of the free will the act of asking is reached.

Guido Bonatti, Book of Astronomy, Tr. 5, 146 Considerations, trans
Dykes (Cazimi Press, 2007) at 264.

There is an automatic tendency for us to think, "This is my question, I thought of it myself" and to think that this is our free will operating. In fact, we are in tune with the Heavens and our emotions, which are really what is driving us to ask the question, are under the influence of the planets and stars.

This view that, "this is MY question" also causes me repeated problems because querents, usually after they get a "no" answer to their relationship question and want to go back and start making technical attacks in hoping of turning the answer to "yes" freak out about using a chart for the time, date and place that the astrologer understands the question.

Lilly says,

"...for let us suppose a Letter is sent or delivered to me, wherein I am desired to resolve some doubts; perhaps I receive the Letter into my hands at three o'clock in any day of the week, but in regard of some occassions, do not read it until four or five hours after; that very hour and minute of hour when I break it open, and perceive the intention of the Querent, is the time to which I ought to erect my Figure, and from thence to draw mine Astrological Judgment: This way and manner have I practiced, and found success answerable..."

William Lilly, Christian Astrology, page 166.

I have found that the "received" chart is much more accurate and objective than the "asked" chart, which is much more subjective and tends to be colored by the attitude and emotions of the querent. Bonatti's explanation of the multiple causes of a horary helps us understand why it isn't simply the querent who is the cause and the be all and end all of a horary question.

House Based Talismans & the Tree of Wealth

The absolute height of astrological magic, the most difficult to elect and the most powerful astrological talismans are the house based talismans. These are based, not on the power of a single planet, star or other astrological factor, but on the combination of multiple planets ruling key houses. While the typical astrological talismans requires 4-5 factors, house talismans can call for up to 15 separate factors.

Our key source for house based talismans are Picatrix and De Imaginibus On Images or Talismans, by the Harranian Sabian sage Thabit Ibn Qurra. When my students get to the house based talisman lesson, which is one of the last lessons in the Astrological Magic Course they have already mastered planetary, Mansions of the Moon, fixed star and decan/face talismans. Everybody finds house based talismans tough to do, because finding elections for them with so many factors are so difficult. But the work is worth it, since these are truly the most powerful, most intense talismans.

There are important differences between planetary and house based talismans and I've had to do some real thinking about what is actually going on when we worth with a house based talisman. When we make a planetary talisman we get the basic energy of that planet. We can check out how the planet is in our natal chart to see if we are compatible with its basic energy, but its house placement in our natal chart doesn't change the basic energy of the planet. Just because we have Saturn ruling the 7th, doesn't turn Saturn into a love talisman!

I look at house based talismans like a celestial repertory theater. "A repertory theatre can be a theatre in which a resident company presents works from a specified repertoire, usually in alternation or rotation" The planets are the actors, the houses are different roles they can take on, and the chart for specific election, for a particular time, date and place, shows the complete script for a play. A curse talisman, with afflicted planets and bad aspects, is a tragedy, a benefic talisman, with dignified planets and good aspects, could be a love story, with the 1st and 7th (love & marriage) houses and their rulers well dignified and well connected with good aspects or house placement, or a rags to riches story with the focus on the 1st, 2nd (wealth) and 10th (success, fame, career) houses. Now each of the planets is capable of ruling any house and playing the role of that house well if highly dignified. If we line up the natural rulership with the house rulership, it is like type casting, have John Wayne play the cowboy.

We've been blessed for the past few years with Jupiter, the natural ruler of wealth and prosperity, well dignified. We've been able to do some beautiful Jupiter talismans and we've been able to type cast Jupiter as a key component in some very powerful house based wealth talismans. First the Great Wealth talisman, now sold out, with the last one selling for $900. Then the Fountain of Wealth, which are almost sold out and going for $499.95 and finally the newest and last of our Jupiter "type cast" house based wealth talismans, the Tree of Wealth

The Great Wealth, I looked out for the next 50 years and could not duplicate the conditions. The Fountain of Wealth, at least 12 years, before we can make them again. This means that the Tree of Wealth is really your last chance to get these strongest of wealth talismans, at least until Jupiter goes into Cancer in 2013.

The Tree of Wealth election has a tiny window, just about 5 minutes, when everything lines up right. This means that Wade, our jeweler/mage, is only going to be able to make a tiny amount of the Tree of Wealth talismans. I had started out with pre-orders at $199.95 plus shipping and we have now sold out this slot, and the pre-order price is $249.95 plus shipping.

We have only a few slots available at that price and the price will increase to $299.95 as soon as the talismans are cast and are in stock. You can, if you want, do a layaway and hold that $249.95 price, if you want to pay at least $100 now and the remainder when the talismans come in in January. Contact me if you want more info. But otherwise, the price of the Tree of Wealth talismans are going up and up and up!

Let me just say a bit about the election and the talismans themselves. In the election, which you can see here our key players are a very dignified Moon waxing in Taurus, who rules the 1st house of the user of the talisman and the 2nd house of wealth, making the user strong, powerful and increasing in strength as well as pumping up their wealth and income. Jupiter, natural ruler of wealth rules the 10th of success, fame and career. The Moon sextiles Jupiter, and there is a nice transfer of light as she aspects the Sun who aspects Jupiter.

The Tree of Wealth talisman image was created by the visionary contemporary artist Robert Place and feature his Tree of Wealth design with a beautiful tree blossoming with coins stamped with Moon & Jupiter sigils. On the tree itself is Robert's vision of the infinite wealth sigil!

These talismans are the first of our new streamlined designs. We've tried out many different sizes and thicknesses of talismans over the years and have had feedback requesting that we try out a more sleek design, so the Tree of Wealth talismans are about 1.1 inches in diameter, rather than the standard 1.3 inches and a bit trimmer.

House based talismans really represent the height of mastery of astrological magic and it has been exciting to delve into their mysteries. Only now I am beginning to understand how lucky we are to have found these super wealth talisman elections! And I can tell you from personal experience that they work! The elections for these wealth talismans have coincided with huge surges in my business, fame and income. While I can't always predict exactly what will happen, I KNOW that these talismans WORK!

Definitely worth thinking about, even if you just want to put a down a layaway payment.

More info on the Tree of Wealth talismans

Thoughts on Deconsecration

Recently I had a couple of requests from clients and students for information about deconsecrating talismans.

Basically the method I use for deconsecration is pretty straightforward. Repeat whatever ritual you used to consecrate the talisman in the first place, but thank the spirit(s) for their efforts on your behalf and ask leave the talisman or withdraw their powers from it. Then respectfully dispose of the talisman. In the case of paper talisman they can be burnt, other talismans can be thrown into running water.

However, in thinking about deconsecration, I realized some bigger issues were involved. Personally, I have only ever deconsecrated one set of talismans. These were Jupiter talismans that I made on Jupiter day and hour, but with Jupiter in detriment and retrograde! Needless to say a very bad idea and I promptly started losing large amounts of money. These were not wealth talismans, they were poverty talismans!

Other than that, however, I haven't deconsecrated any talismans. I hadn't really thought about it before, but I don't feel comfortable getting rid of talismans. As I think about this feeling, I realized that it comes from my basic approach to talismanic magic, which is only one of several ways to orient yourself in this area.

One way to look at talismanic magic is what could be termed the "modern" approach. Here spiritual forces are analogized to scientifically verifiable forms of energy and matter. Jupiter, for example, puts out certain waves or a force field or something and consecrating a talisman is basically like charging a battery. Just like a battery, when you are through with it, you throw it away. Worrying about the feelings of the battery or the battery charger would be ridiculous! They are inanimate, dead objects separate from you, who exist simply to serve you.

The next possible approach comes from traditional ceremonial or grimoiric magic, particularly goetic magic. Here the magician and their will is paramount. The magician stands at the center of their protective circle and commands the spirits to appear. The magician needs various types of protection against the spirits, but through knowledge and above all will, forces the spirit(s) to do their bidding.

Finally there is what might be termed the "devotional" approach. Here the planets, stars, etc, are seen as gods or basically angelic spirits, from a higher sphere. The mage does not really command the spirits, but always strives to be respectful of these powerful beings who are basically benign, if properly approached. While you can petition for particular effects from these spirits, they are more looking out for your long term interests, rather than necessarily granting your short term desires. The devotional approach is typical of Vedic astrology.

Now depending on which approach you take, your attitude toward deconsecration is going to differ. For the modern approach, when you are done with a talisman or if you are not immediately satisfied with it, you just toss it out. Similarly with the goetic approach, once you are done, toss it, but in this case you would want to make sure that you thoroughly deconsecrated the talisman so you didn't get any blowback.

With the devotional approach, however, tossing a talisman is like tossing out a gift a friend gave you and telling them. Or perhaps like defriending your rich uncle on Facebook. If you are just dealing with impersonal forces, or if you are the center of the universe and most powerful being in it, then you needn't worry about how your actions come across. If, however, these are powerful beings with personalities then you have to start thinking about etiquette!

I've gravitated to the devotional approach because it suits me and seems to most accurately reflect my experiences as well as being in line with many traditional sources. Certainly the ceremonial magic approach is traditional as well, though it is somewhat of an extension to use that approach with astrological spirits. If we look at the Picatrix invocations, in particularly the lengthy planetary invocations attributed to the Harranian Sabians in Book III, chapter 7, the commanding of the spirits is de-emphasized, though still present and most of the invocation consists of listing the attributes of the planets. The protective circles, clothing and equipment, so characteristic of goetic invocation are missing. Certainly the invocations involve petitions and specific requests but the adaptation of these invocations from the standard religious and devotional practice of the Sabians is evident.

One of the reasons that I like the practice of planetary charity which comes from the Vedic astrology of India, is that it derives from their basically devotional approach.

So, personally my preference is for the devotional approach. That is not to say that this is the "BEST" for everyone in all situations, but it has its advantages. Early on when we were just starting to work with the Mansions of the Moon, a magician with a strong Goetic connection decided to invoke a Mansion spirit using the full Key of Solomon style ritual with the strong imprecations and commands, etc. The being he got claimed to be a Mansion spirit, but then proceeded to make a deal with the magician for rum and tobacco and then not carry out what he promised to do.

On the other hand, I have a very strong personal connection to the spirit of the 3rd Mansion of the Moon, who I invoke every time the Moon enters the 3rd Mansion. I simply praise her and thank her for her efforts, ask her to continue to bring "all good things" and burn a candle and incense. Having done this for about 4 years now, I invariably get a boost in business around her day each month and 3 months this year, the 3rd Mansion day was the biggest business day of the month!

Ficino says,

"I have said elsewhere that down from every single star (so to speak Platonically) there hangs its own series of things down to the lowest...Under the celestial Serpent or the entire constellation of the Serpent-bearer, they place Saturn and sometimes Jupiter, afterwards daemons who often take on serpent's form, in addition men of this kind, serpents (the animals), the snake-weed, the stone draconite which originates in the head of a dragon, and the stone commonly called serpentine..

Ficino, Three Books on Life Bk. III, Chap. 14, p. 311.

My sense is that the Goetic magician, in using Goetic methods, summoned a Goetic spirit in the chain of the Mansion, rather than the Mansion lord.

Ultimately, it seems that what you put out and the attitude and methods in which you do your magic comes back to you!

Credit Card for William Lilly!

Yesterday I got this letter in the mail!




All William needs to do now is provide his date of birth, 1 May (O.S.)/11 May (N.S.), 1602 and SSN and he can start buying stuff on credit. Thanks, Bank of America! This gives me new found faith in the accuracy and careful vetting done by our financial system.

I've heard about dogs getting credit card offers and dead people getting them isn't really that surprising, except Lilly has been dead over 300 years!

At first I was, "hey, why didn't I get one of these offers?" and then I realized I'm on the "Do Not Solicit for Credit Cards" list. I can see William needs to get on this list too!