But it's MY Question! Asked or Received Horary Charts

I wanted to do some additional followup regarding an earlier post about the proper location to be used for horary charts. Do we use the asked chart, the time, date and place of the querent when they first asked the question, or do we use the received chart, the time, date and place the astrologer receives and understands the question?

Lilly says,

"...for let us suppose a Letter is sent or delivered to me, wherein I am desired to resolve some doubts; perhaps I receive the Letter into my hands at three o'clock in any day of the week, but in regard of some occassions, do not read it until four or five hours after; that very hour and minute of hour when I break it open, and perceive the intention of the Querent, is the time to which I ought to erect my Figure, and from thence to draw mine Astrological Judgment: This way and manner have I practiced, and found success answerable..."

William Lilly, Christian Astrology, page 166.

Lilly's practice, therefore, was to use the received chart. Some querents find this confusing. After all, "It is MY question, why don't you use MY location, time and date?" Some of the force behind this view comes from the Modern World View in particular the idea that "The basic unit of the Modern World View is taken to be the individual." The view that an idea might have a person, rather than a person having an idea seems odd to the modern.

But look at the Wrong Zodiac Meme an excellent example of an idea or concept going viral, seemingly a metaphoric, but actually a pretty accurate description of how the same idea "infected" millions.

So is it really MY question? Traditional astrology says not quite! The medieval Italian astrologer Guido Bonatti says,

1st Consideration. on those things which move a man to pose a question (and there are three motions). The first is the motion of the soul, when someone is moved by his intention to pose a question. The second is the motion of the superior bodies, namely when someone asks what they are impressing into the quesited thing, what will come of it. The third is the motion of the free will, which can itself be an action of the one asking. Because even thought the soul is moved to ask, it does not suffice unless the superior bodies lead him to pose the question; nor does the motion of the stars suffice, unless form the motion of the free will the act of asking is reached.

Guido Bonatti, Book of Astronomy, Tr. 5, 146 Considerations, trans Dykes (Cazimi Press, 2007) at 264.

In other words the querent is part of a larger patterning, that they are not under the complete control of (fatalism) nor are they entirely able to choose any option (complete free will) rather they play a role in a complex patterned interaction and flow.

I tell querents that I prefer to use the received time because it gives a more accurate and more objective view of the situation. The asked chart often seems subjective, affected in its accuracy by the emotional state, hopes and fears of the querent. Let me give a concrete, personal example.

I had had a contractor do some work on my house. Unlike all my other contractors this one was an acquaintance/friend. They had previously done a good job, came in under the estimate and so foolishly, I didn't get an written estimate for the latest work and just relied on an oral estimate. When they gave me the first bill, before any visible work was done on the house, the bill was already high. I made my displeasure known and the contractor claimed to be "2/3s done" When they gave me the final bill, however, it turned out that they were not 2/3s done and had billed me way, way, way higher. I was angry, send them a check and told them take it or leave it, having judged that the contractor didn't have the stomach for a fight. However, they surprised me by getting a lawyer and threatening a lawsuit!

Here is the chart of my question, "How will the contractor case turn out?" asked once I got the lawyer's letter. 2:25 pm CST December 11, 2010 Iowa City, IA USA. 11 Taurus rises and it is Mars hour. As Mars is the mixed ruler of earth signs, the chart is radical or rooted which means it has internal signs of accuracy.

As Taurus rises I am signified by Venus, who is dignified by triplicity, but in detriment, conjunct the 7th house cusp.

The Moon is peregrine in the 11th house.

The contractor as legal opponent is signified by Mars, ruler of the 7th house, exalted and conjunct the North Node.

The Moon sextiles Mars, significator of the legal opponent, then Mercury, then trines Venus, my significator. Mars is currently moving to sextile Venus, my significator, but will not perfect the aspect as Venus speeds up.

Analysis

Wow, am I @#$% My significator Venus, while dignified by triplicity (+3) is in detriment (-5) overall -2. Worse, I am in the sign and conjunct the cusp of the house of my opponent, a sign of defeat. Christian Astrology page 373. His significator Mars, ruler of the 7th, is the natural ruler of warfare and litigation, very strong, and he is feeling very strong about his position since Mars is exalted. Comparing the strength of my significator Venus -2 to his significator Mars, +4 I also lose. Christian Astrology page 373.

Ok, now the Moon sextiles Mars, without reception so that indicates settlement, but with some battling it out first. Christian Astrology page 372. Mars, his significator, looks like it is applying to Venus, my significator, but Venus speeds up and gets away before the aspect perfects. This could indicate an attempt at settlement, likely by him, that doesn't pan out.

Look at my 2nd house ruled by Mercury, peregrine and retrograde, ouch, losses for me. His house of wealth, the 8th is ruled by Jupiter dignified by sign and the Sun dignified by triplicity is there along with his significator exalted and conjunct the North Node. Much better in terms of money for him than me.

So, I felt that I was in a terrible position, that the case would settle but that I would have to end up paying a lot because I was so weak and he was so strong. I was particularly bothered by the fact that my personal opinion of him was that he didn't want to fight, but here he was Mars exalted in the chart and he had hired a lawyer.

Ok, now the outcome is very interesting. Seeing this chart, I immediately changed course, and switched from being aggressive to trying to settle the case. I call the contractor on the phone and suggested we meet and work things out amicably. At first he agreed then his lawyer called and aggressively refused to meet in person and insisted on me making a settlement offer. I made an initial low ball offer and amazingly enough the contractor took it! The lawyer was somewhat embarrassed that the client just folded. I ended up settling the case for not much more than the initial oral estimate and saved a huge amount of money off the original bill.

So the chart was correct as far as showing settlement, but rather than showing the actual state of the parties, it showed my emotional attitude at the time of the question! I was really surprised and unhappy to get the lawyer's letter.

Now, we cannot entirely rule out that the chart simply was inaccurate, except that I have done plenty of received charts that were quite accurate. Also I have been noticing that legal charts that I do are leaning towards being more negative in the chart than in the actual outcome. All of these possibilities need to be considered. However, ultimately, this reminds me of what sometimes happens to me with tarot or I ching readings. Occasionally when I do these readings when I am upset about a situation, instead of forecasting the situation they come back saying, "yes you are upset!"

Certainly our traditional sources often manifested skepticism about the ability of an astrologer to be dispassionate enough to read their own chart. eg Guido Bonatti, Book of Astronomy, Tr. 6, Chapter 4, trans Dykes (Cazimi Press, 2007) at 264. It does appear that for the highest degree of accuracy that it is very useful to have another astrologer not only judge the question, but also take the received
chart.

Personal Lucky Stars?

I had a question recently asking if a particular star was rising (conjunct the Ascendant) in one's natal chart, whether that made it a "lucky" star for the person and contrawise, if the star was on the Descendant (conjunct the 7th house cusp) that made it personally "unlucky".

It appears that the original Hellenistic use of the angles, ie 1st house cusp or Ascendant, 10th or Midheaven, 7th or Descendant, 4th or Imum Coeli ("below heaven") was as a measure of strength, with the Ascendant being strongest, closely followed by the Midheaven.

While the houses now have additional meanings, eg 2nd is money, 4th real property, etc., the angular houses retain their use as indicating strength and prominence. See Bonatti, Book of Astronomy, Tr. 2 Ch 4 Dykes trans at 94 "...four are called "angles", name the 1st & 4th and 7th and 10th. And these houses are the stronger and firmer parts of the Heavens..."

The most prominent part of a house is conjunct the cusp. A planet that is not in a house, but in the previous house within 5 degrees of the cusp of a house, strongly influences that house, even stronger than if it were say, 20 degrees into the house. This is the "5 degree" rule of Ptolemy. Tetrabiblos, Bk III.

So a planet, fixed star, etc., conjunct the Ascendant or Midheaven is giving the strongest possible influence over the strongest houses in the chart. The orb will vary depending on whether this is a planet (perhaps up to 8 degrees) or fixed star (within 1 degree usually) or varying for Nodes, etc.

In any case, a planet or fixed star conjunct the Ascendant or Midheaven will be very influential for the chart and very prominent in the life of a person if it is a natal chart.

Now, how it will affect the person or manifest depends on what the nature of the star is and the person's life situation. But merely being conjunct the Ascendant or Midheaven doesn't change the nature of the star. Algol conjunct the Ascendant in your natal chart, doesn't generally make Algol a "lucky star" for you, rather it makes you metaphorically lose your head and make bad choices or occasionally is an indication of violent death by literally losing your head. Now this does not rule out the possibility that you can tap into the energy of Algol more easily since it is so prominent but Algol stays Algol. Of course, my experience with Algol shows me that he or she is powerful, but quite useful in the proper circumstance as well. See, for example Large Algol Talisman and Small Algol Talisman.

I do notice that there is a tendency for astrologers to assume that the Heavens re-arrange themselves based on our personal birthcharts. If Saturn, for example, rules the 7th in your chart, he foretells, among other factors, your love life. This does not, however, make Saturn a love talisman for you, because this is not his nature.

We are the result of the mingling of celestial forces, not the arbiters of their nature!

Wrong Zodiac Meme

It's a tribute to the amplifying power of the Internet that the "Wrong Zodiac Meme" ie, constellations have moved, there are 13 signs, etc., has now gone viral. I've had multiple posters try to put up links on it, I even got called by a TV reporter for comments on it.

In short the "Wrong Zodiac Meme" says, "Throw away your watch, the only accurate way to tell time is with a sundial!"

But this is nothing more than the tired, old, moth eaten Constellational Zodiac argument. I got so tired of questions about it, that I did a whole webpage on it awhile ago.

This is a perfect example of what is wrong with modern astrology and the "New Age" in general. As the bastard child of Science, Victorian Theosophy and New Thought, it utterly lacks a coherent underlying philosophy. Ask a modern astrologer how astrology works and they are either going to give some variation of energy fields, or gravity beams or string theory, or they just won't have a clue! The "Wrong Zodiac Meme" is going to totally flummox them, since they believe in scientific causality and this is an argument based on scientific causality.

But wait! What is the point of making a technical argument based on scientific causality when astrology itself is completely unscientific? This is like saying, "A new scientific study shows that the Catholic Mass needs reform because chemical analysis shows that white wine is closer to actual blood chemistry than red wine."

But as I mention on the webpage If you find the "Wrong Zodiac Meme" argument convincing, you are an unconscious atheistic/materialist! Nothing wrong with that, good thing to know, but a real stumbling block to working as a traditional astrologer or magician.

When to Ask a Horary???

I was recently asked about how I timed the asking of a personal horary question. The questioner asked me, assuming I knew where the planets were at any given time, how did that affect when I asked a horary.

Using astrological software causes me to think in terms of celestial snapshots, lots of individual charts, rather than really being aware of the current position of planets. To tell you the truth, off hand I can't tell you the current position of any planet other than Saturn (in Libra) and Jupiter (in Pisces). Part of this is calculated because I don't want to base a horary on my knowledge of the planets' position and part comes from always using astrological software.

Of course, even if you know all the position of the planets, it is a lot more difficult to know who the current house rulers are and this is really the key to a horary analysis.

I have had clients who attempted to control horaries by worrying about the Moon being void of course, or Mercury retrograde or trying to ask the horary at a good time. My view of this is that it is about as effective as going through a tarot deck and taking out all the bad cards. You can force a positive divination, but it is likely to be inaccurate!

So I strongly advise querents not to base the timing of the asking of a horary on one's astrological knowledge. The easiest way to do that is not to be aware of the state of the Heavens at all, or at least do your best not to let it influence you.

What I recommend to clients is that they ask a horary when they just can't stand it any longer and HAVE to know the answer. Bonatti says, "For matters spring up according to the amount of worry and hope and money of the querent."

Guido Bonatti, Book of Astronomy, Tr. 6, Part 2, On the Particular Judgments of the Stars, trans Dykes (Cazimi Press, 2007) at 371.

It is useful to consider exactly what is happening when a querent asks a question. Bonatti says,

1st Consideration. on those things which move a man to pose a question (and there are three motions). The first is the motion of the soul, when someone is moved by his intention to pose a question. The second is the motion of the superior bodies, namely when someone asks what they are impressing into the quesited thing, what will come of it. The third is the motion of the free will, which can itself be an action of the one asking. Because even thought the soul is moved to ask, it does not suffice unless the superior bodies lead him to pose the question; nor does the motion of the stars suffice, unless form the motion of the free will the act of asking is reached.

Guido Bonatti, Book of Astronomy, Tr. 5, 146 Considerations, trans
Dykes (Cazimi Press, 2007) at 264.

There is an automatic tendency for us to think, "This is my question, I thought of it myself" and to think that this is our free will operating. In fact, we are in tune with the Heavens and our emotions, which are really what is driving us to ask the question, are under the influence of the planets and stars.

This view that, "this is MY question" also causes me repeated problems because querents, usually after they get a "no" answer to their relationship question and want to go back and start making technical attacks in hoping of turning the answer to "yes" freak out about using a chart for the time, date and place that the astrologer understands the question.

Lilly says,

"...for let us suppose a Letter is sent or delivered to me, wherein I am desired to resolve some doubts; perhaps I receive the Letter into my hands at three o'clock in any day of the week, but in regard of some occassions, do not read it until four or five hours after; that very hour and minute of hour when I break it open, and perceive the intention of the Querent, is the time to which I ought to erect my Figure, and from thence to draw mine Astrological Judgment: This way and manner have I practiced, and found success answerable..."

William Lilly, Christian Astrology, page 166.

I have found that the "received" chart is much more accurate and objective than the "asked" chart, which is much more subjective and tends to be colored by the attitude and emotions of the querent. Bonatti's explanation of the multiple causes of a horary helps us understand why it isn't simply the querent who is the cause and the be all and end all of a horary question.